This episode, I'm chatting to Jen Dary, a leadership coach, workshop organiser, writer and card-maker from California. Jen runs Plucky, a company focused on helping companies and their people create happier workplaces. We like that! We talk about the strange need for managers and leaders to spend time creating physical things, the challenges of moving into management and how much it can help to chat things over with someone who can't fire you. Jen is wicked fun, and a great guest
